Anonyme: Hey. So thanks to you and some others I realized I'm not a guy. So first off, thanks for that. Second off, I'm not sure where to go from here. The nb community on here feels really intimidating to me, partially because of what looks like from a distance to be a war between AFAB and AMAB people, which is confusing to me. Are these not the things we're trying to get away from? Why aer people identifying with these terms?

first of all, congratulations.

second, i really hope there’s not a war.

some people talk about distinctions between amab and afab nb folks as a way of talking about how misogyny operates in queer and nb spaces.

i dont really like those terms because i think they have a tendency to reinscribe birth assignment back onto people who have made identity choices aimed specifically at getting away from those assignments.

as for practicality, never feel like you’re required to associate with someone on here if their discourse and/or the arguments they’re getting into are making you uncomfortable. your nonbinariness does not have to be predicated on birth assignment, nor do you have to make analysis based on that assignment central or meaningful to your life.

Anonyme: i just feel really dysphoric and distressed when i hear about amab vs afab things and i'm trying to figure out why that is or if there's a way the discourse could not cause that for me. i think most of it comes down to physical sex, which is still a construct, but not really gender, for me. i've also had pretty much exclusively bad experiences when it comes to sex and gender so i just wish those experiences would be made irrelevant somehow, or erased from my past completely, making me "neutral"

thats an understandable thing to want and i wish you the best of luck achieving neutrality.

Anonyme: but my parents never really socialized me to be anything... and i've had body dysphoria both ways. i know genitals don't usually factor into that conversation but those terms still imply something about that, as much as female-bodied or male-bodied do. i guess this mainly has to do with my body dysphoria, but the thing that makes me wonder where i fit is the fact that my body dysphoria is consistent with trans men in most ways but the social dysphoria i have is more inconsistent .

i dont know your personal situation but i find the idea that your parents or guardians didnt socialize you highly dubious. gendered socialization has been shown to be incredibly deep-rooted, even unconscious (that is, parents do it even when they dont even know themselves that htey’re treating ‘male’ babies different from ‘female’ babies). in addition, the things we often use birth assignment as a shorthand for include the relation to state power, which at least in every country ive ever lived in has included a gender classification (and, by extension, particular ways of relating to state power in schools etc).

i understand that many people don’t feel like they were socialized into any particular gender but i suspect that is more on them than on their parents (unless there really are some magical parents out there immune to gender in which case, can i have their numbers?)

i dont know what you mean by “dysphoria both ways”

further it seems you’re assuming a certain sort of uniformity to trans experiences. your experiences and feelings are valid in a self-evident way, precisely because they’re yours.

its fine to not be comfortable with everything someone in a given category says, feels, or believes, your views and feelings don’t have to match up with everyone else’s.

Anonyme: im also enby and honestly it hurts feeling erased by the community. like i wish others would try and use non-men rather than just women when talking about structural patriarchy instead but i feel like this is like a dude asking "what about men"

this is true, but also patriarchy doesn’t really recognize a difference between “women” and “non-men” (similarly, doesn’t really recognize a difference between “men” and “non-women”)

Anonyme: i just wanted to clarify that with those messages i didn't mean to imply that i felt i was a trans woman or afab but i do literally feel sick to my stomach at the idea that anyone on the internet could know how i was identified at birth, because, truth be told that's shorthand for "born with a vagina" and i really don't want anyone to know that. ever. or even think about that. i don't think there should be discourse that so heavily discusses children's genitals like some people do

yuriadventure:

atomicdomme:

generally when people talk about birth assignment they’re referring to the way a child was raised/which gendered category they were pressured to fit into (‘socialization’, in a word).

the relevance of genitals to the discussion is generally quite low unless we’re talking about transitioning, genital dysphoria, surgeries, etc. (which, by the way, are one of the things that sets (many) trans women apart from cis girls who had a hard time fitting into normative girlhood)

idk the asker has a point there that people increasingly use afab and amab to say “okay but what’s your REAL gender/sex”

yes, and the increasing prevalence of that particular discourse in trans and nonbinary communities was what started this whole series of posts to begin with

Anonyme: and i know i'm not cis, because my gender changes all the time and my definition of being trans is about the... the trans part. the fact that i had to become somebody else. and that i feel like both things at once most of the time. i don't want to co-opt anyone else's struggles but i don't want to be grouped into anything that involves or implies genitalia past or present because that is a constant source of dysphoria for me and i plan on doing everything i can to prevent people from knowing

ok i didnt mean to imply cisness.

still there’s a pretty substantial difference between my childhood and a person who was raised such that they were expected to become a girl

Anonyme: i just wanted to clarify that with those messages i didn't mean to imply that i felt i was a trans woman or afab but i do literally feel sick to my stomach at the idea that anyone on the internet could know how i was identified at birth, because, truth be told that's shorthand for "born with a vagina" and i really don't want anyone to know that. ever. or even think about that. i don't think there should be discourse that so heavily discusses children's genitals like some people do

generally when people talk about birth assignment they’re referring to the way a child was raised/which gendered category they were pressured to fit into (‘socialization’, in a word).

the relevance of genitals to the discussion is generally quite low unless we’re talking about transitioning, genital dysphoria, surgeries, etc. (which, by the way, are one of the things that sets (many) trans women apart from cis girls who had a hard time fitting into normative girlhood)

Anonyme: i see dxab, axab, and caxab thrown around, which one is suppose to be used for which situation?

i generally see all of them used more or less interchangeably. some people have specific situations, but ive never seen anything really catch on.

the exception to that is when more or less everyone i know stopped using caxab except when referring to intersex people who were operated upon as infants, but even this isn’t consistent.

i generally stick to dxab and axab, and use the terms interchangeably